I really don't have a good answer. One possibility is to curve the sections in the West side of the building at 9:00 so that their averages are the same as the other sections. I think this would be fair and equitable.
Any suggestions?
Offer a possible replacement test if the student is not happy with his or her grade because of the fire alarm.
But then would thisw be offered to everyone?
I think a curve should be applied to the students on the west side. At that point, if students are unhappy with the grade, an optional make up should be available perhaps next Thursday or during dead week.
I don't believe a curve would be fair without the option for a make up. Noise affects people differently, some people can think normally during noise (like listening to music when studying). Other students study in silence and can't concentrate unless a test is given in silence. A curve would be an advantage to students that can stay focused through noise and unfair for those that find it difficult to concentrate with background noise.
I agree that a curve might work, but I think the best solution is an optional make up test, with approximately the same type of questions with the same difficulty. Like already stated, noise does affect different people differently and this should account for that.
Everyone has made good points. Keep up with the suggestions,
and we (the TAs and I) will decide by early next week.
Because my T.A. was not present, it also took a little longer to get situated with a new T.A and begin taking the Quiz. On top of that, I found it very hard to concentrate during the test with the fire alarm going off. Since we were not even given any extra time to complete the test, I think a curve would be fair. I agree witht the fact that if it's still not a desired result, then we should have the option of taking the test over in a normal testing situation. At the same time, it is dead week, and many people other tests, papers, and finals to study for.
We should drop the lowest test grade for both sections, so the 9 am students are happy - if they did poorly on this exam, it should be their drop, and then the 8 am students should get a drop as well. This would be ultimately the most fair thing to do, otherwise if their is a retake, the 8 am students will complain and will want a retake too. The 9 am students would have a unfair advantage as they have seen the types of problems most likely to be asked on a make up
Dropping the lowest test for everyone is fair. That way poor students won't have the fire alarm as an excuse and if a good student got distracted and did poorly, the test is dropped. A make up test is hard since the end of the semester is approaching
I agree with whoever posted that the lowest test grade should be dropped. That way the 9am students can drop it if they ended up doing really poorly on today's test with the fire alarm going off, and it will be fair to the 8am students that they drop their lowest test grade too.
If a makeup test is granted, then the 8am students should be given the chance to retake the test. The simplest answer is to drop the lowest grade for both 8 and 9am.
I agree what the person above came up with - Its the best solution to meet everyone's needs
Most definately the best solution - pure genious
Yeh, drop the lowest test score.
Drop the lowest test score. That seems like the fairest way.
The 8 AM people didnt have to deal with the fire alarm. The 9 AM people did. Dropping everyone's lowest test grade would give them a huge advantage.
"Huge advantage"? Maybe if everyone in the 9AM class got a zero. But since this is most likely not the case, dropping everyone's lowest test grade seems like a viable solution. Hats off to whoever came up with that one.
stop complaining please
I think the best solution would be to just curve the averages of the two lectures to make them somewhat even.
The averages were fairly low for the tests anyway. I agree that the lowest grade should just be dropped for both 8 and 9 o'clock.
BEST SOLUTION:
We take into consideration variables such as age, weight, height, waist, and hours of time studying calc a week. We then take these variables and put them into a matrix. We set b equal to their test values on the past test. We then find the least squares solution of the matrix and use that data to apporximate the best fit of the scores of each student of the 9 am class.
Just have two separate curves on the exam...one for the portion of the building not influenced by the fire alarm...and the other for the part where the fire alarm went off.
I agree that dropping the lowest test score for both sections would be most fair.
I side with dropping the lowest grade as well.
I too feel that dropping the lowest test grade would be the most fair option in this situation.
Dropping the lowest grade is not going to help anything since he curves the final grades...all that will do is raise the average...and thus everybody will still be about the same relative to the average.
I definitely think that just dropping the lowest test grade will make it fair for all classes. This is the best option, rather than just giving a retake.
Drop the lowest test grade
When you drop the lowest grade, the curve will not be affected that much. True, your test average would go up. But it appears the people in 9 AM did bad today as well because of the fire alarm, which means their grade would be even lower, and at a certain point, a curve will not help your grade. Also, there is very little time to have a retake, which would only be fair if given to both times, 8 AM and 9 AM. In conclusion...DROP THE LOWEST TEST (it is the simplest solution and the fairest way)
I agree with the majority who said that the lowest grade should be dropped for both 8&9am sections.
If you drop the lowest test grade then it doesnt help the person who did poorly on the test 4 beacuse of the fire alarm and also has another bad test grade. IF that is the situation you were relying on the 4th test to raise your test average, and in turn it will keep your grades exactly the same. There is no fair solution.
Dropping the lowest test grade gives the 8am section an advatage because they had the opportunity to do well on 4 tests will the 9 am had only three chances because of the fire alarm, if the fire alarm affected you.
I think dropping the lowest grade is a great idea! It's the best solution and is fair to both 8am and 9am classes
The problem here is that the 9 am class had to take the test while a fire alarm went off the whole time. Why is the 8 am class part of the solution when they are not part of the problem? Because they are spamming this page with GRADE GRUBBING. If you try to claim that it is not fair that the 9 am class gets some benifits or options on the last test why don't you try considering the fact that we had to take the test during a fire alarm?
There's definitely no way to please everyone. Some 9 amers have stated they should be given exclusive rights to a grade drop because SOME of them had a disturbance for the test. How is this fair? The degree to which people were affected is uncertain because of personal differences in test-taking environment and location. Thus, if a 9 amer has no problem with fire alarms gets to drop a grade, why can't a 8 amer also. They both were affected equally in that case. Because of the ambiguity I support a grade drop for 8 am and 9 am.
If only people in the 9 am class get to drop it's as if they didn't have to take the exam that was given yesterday where as the 8am class did have to.
Do nothing until it is proved that those who were close to the alarm did in fact have a lower average. If it was lower... then I agree with "drop the lowest test". I studied hard for this test, and I KNOW I did well. I wasn't on the west side so I couldn't hear the noise much... but I'm going to be pretty upset if through curves and makeup tests all my hard work to bring up my grade with this test is for naught.
A specific curve for the affected classes seems the only fair way to handle this.
I agree that both the 9 am class and the 8 am class should have their lowest test grade dropped. This is the most fair thing to do and it will also satisfy the most people for the reasons previously stated.
Curving makes no sense. If 9AM gets curved, then the grade equivalence of 9AM is not same for 8AM class.
DROP THE LOWEST QUIZ! Makes the most sense. Thank you.
Drop the lowest quiz for both classes!! I don't want to have to retake this class again!!
I already made my "lowest test grade" on the first test of the year and I put many hours of effort studying into this last test, only to be distracted by the alarm. My final test grade isn't as high as it should be because I couldn't stay focused and ran out of time at the end because I had to keep rethinking stuff because I kept getting distracted. I need a fair environment to retake it in if a drop is to be fair. We knew what types of problems that were going to be on the test because of the review problems and old tests on the web site. Only an optional retake would be fair.
Dropping everyone's lowest test wouldnt be right because 9 AM took a test while a fire alarm was going off. Don't get distracted from the whole reason we are having this discussion. 9 AM took a test with a fire alarm going off. If the lowest test grade is dropped, anyone who was distracted by the fire alarm is stuck with their first 3 tests while people who were not distracted would be able to drop any of their 4 tests.
Drop everyones test 4 then
Dropping only test 4 makes no sense...what if somebody did well on test 4? It would not be fair to take that grade away from them.
I agree with dropping the lowest quiz.
Dropping tests is not fair because then you would have to do it for both classes, which a good student in the 8 am class wouldnt need. The problem was that the fire alarm created an unfair environment for the 9 am students. I think the best option would be for a curve to bring the average up to that of the 8am class (as Dr. Morley suggested), or offering a make-up for the 9 am class only because of TA problems and the fire alarm. This allows them to retake the test in a quiet environment as well as start on time. I dont think 8am should receive compensation for anything that happened to the 9am class. It just doesn't make sense since they had a normal testing environment.
NOTHING HAPPENED TO THE 8 AM SECTIONS, so I think you guys should stop complaining. You took your test, you got your grade. If you did poorly, it is purely your own fault. You guys are asking for compensation for something that had nothing to do with you. Would you like some cheese with your whine? Only 9 AM kids were hurt and are asking for a bandaid, why would you need one, too?
I'm in the 8am class, and i think that allowing the 9am class retake the quiz is the most fair solution, because allowing them drop quiz 4 is just as unfair as leaving their quiz 4 grades as they are (some of them would have done poorly on it anyway.) After they've been given a chance to improve their quiz grade by retaking it, drop everyone's lowest quiz.(asking you to do that is just wishful thinking on my part)
if 9am retaking the test isn't a feasable option, then everyone's(from both sections) lowest quiz grade should be dropped...not just 9am's quiz 4.
I believe that a retake is not feasible beacuse 1) school is getting really intense and everybody's schedule is different 2)the people retaking the test will already have a clue what to study and will do very well on the make up. Also something to think about is that maybe someone in the 9 am class might not have known the information and now that they know whats on the test they can retake it and do well.A curve is not feasible beacuse like others mentioned earlier some people can work well in a nosiy environment giving them an advantage. Another thing would be again, that people who didnt know the information on the test will be unfairly rewarded.
Dropping the lowest test grade is a good option, but can also be unfair, but I believe it is the best solution. If you didnt do well on quiz 4 then you can drop it. I guess if you were depending on that test grade to pull up your average you shouldn have depended on it. I know that " its not fair" but thats life.
Wow, y'all really want a better grade. It's called studying, seriously. The only thing I would agree with, is if this test had the lowest average, then drop it, but the other tests, (and other classes and sides of the hall) have nothing to do with it
Listen all you people in 9 AM...Only 1 section was REALLY affected by this fire alarm. What, you gonna get distracted by the air conditioning next time, or the construction happening down the street? If you want compensation for something that shouldn't have affected you, then give it to everyone. Also, I know in our section our TA did not bring in our problem 3 until 20 minutes into the test, which caused a mess because he kept talking to people about not having it and kept entering and leaving. Should our section have a retake for this distraction as well? You people need to stop complaining about other people in 8 AM wanting to get help, because if you people just admit that you messed up for reasons other than the fire alarm, then none of this discussion would ever happen.
Professor Morley, I believe with all due respect, that the lowest test grade of both 8 and 9 AM classes should be dropped. Thank you for being considerate.
The best solution for this problem is to just drop the lowest test grade from every section and every class. I would help out the majority of people. You can't worry about the minority in this case because no solution, to something like this, will be perfect for everyone. Dropping the lowest test is the best solution for the most people given the circumstances.
my bad about the formating I don't know what button I pushed
Here are my thoughts after reading what has been said so far:
I think that the idea to curve the 9am sections in the West side of the building so that their average is the same as the class is fair. When most people read that you might curve the 9am tests, they think that the 9am tests will get some huge advantage but this isn't the case if all you do is curve their average to the overall class average, this just puts 9am test-takers on par with the rest of the classes.
It isn't fair to punish students for something so out of their control as the fire drill because lets face it, even for very focused people the alarm was a distraction. Had I not been in the room right next to where the alarm was going off, I might disbelieve that one alarm could have such an affect but I consider myself a very focused test-taker and the alarms definitely made an impact on my nerves and overall concentration.
It's stupid to let the students in 8am drop a test or to curve for everyone if the students at 9am were affected by something that 8am didn't have to deal with. Prof Morley said that he would consider curves and dropping a test as the semester goes on and as he figures out average grades so there's still a chance dropping/curves will occur and that's a whole different debate, I'd be Very Happy if we were allowed to drop a test but that argument has NOTHING to do with the fire alarm and therefore these possible scenarios should Not occur because there was a fire alarm 30 minutes after 8am took their test.
I don't believe that dropping/replacing a test is the best answer for 9am because it wouldn't be fair to 8am. Even if the test changes completely, 9am would still be getting more study time than 8am had and I, for one, already have enough on my plate with 3-4 tests per week until finals (including dead week).
There's no problem for 8am, nothing happened during their test so stop trying to come up with a 'solution' for a problem that didn't exist for them.
there will be a problem for 8am if 9am gets a chance to drop their quiz4, and 8am doesn't.
EVERYONE SHOULD JUST DEAL.
these posts are very redundant.
therefore, I will now add a very well placed...
THE END.
IF we're going to curve for disadvantages, then the 8am classes should recieve a curve on every test. An extra hour to sleep/study for every test is an advantage, as is a later lecture time. Also, 9am students derive a huge advantage from talking to their 8am friends right before their test to find out what's on it. I'd take the extra hour of sleep and a fire alarm any day.
IF we're going to curve for disadvantages, then the 8am classes should recieve a curve on every test. An extra hour to sleep/study for every test is an advantage, as is a later lecture time. Also, 9am students derive a huge advantage from talking to their 8am friends right before their test to find out what's on it. I'd take the extra hour of sleep and a fire alarm any day.
^^^READ ABOVE ^^^
I agree w/ the last post. Everyone has advantages/disadvantages, thats part of life. Grading however should be equal and fair. If a curve is used for one section it should be availabe to all.
The most fair course of action is to drop the lowest test. If there is a curve, then it wouldn't favor those who studied for the exam, it would favor those who were less distracted by the alarm's noise. I know that noise distracts me more than other people, so even if there was a curve, my grade would be lower than other peoples, because of not being able to concentrate. A retake would be unfair, because if the 9:00 class got to retake the exam, then everyone else should be allowed to as well, because they would have an additional week to study for the exam and they would have a better idea what would be on the test. Therefore, the fairest course of action would be to drop the lowest test grade.
shut up please and
get over it.....distractions can and will happen in
I think that both the 8am and 9am classes should have the option of retaking the exam. Sure, everyone's already seen the problems, and the overall average for this test would be a little higher than the others. But I think it would be much better if it's a little higher than much lower. I don't think it would be the end of the world if a few more people ended up making A's. Additionally, there would definitely be room for different test questions, as we covered a lot of material that didn't appear on the test (basis, distance from a point to a plane/line, closest pt. to a plane, etc.). At the same time, however, I believe this should be optional, and if you do retake it, you should be able to take the higher test score, in case you somehow screw up on the make-up. Personally, I don't want my test messed with at all, since I put in a lot of time studying and feel I did pretty well. No one from the 8am class should be obligated to anything, especially. The Physics department allows for a retake, and I think it can be done in Calculus as well.
I think the lowest test for both the 8am and 9 am classes should be dropped
I don't think anything should be done...the 8:00 people who've commented so far just want free points, and the 9:00 people just need an excuse for their lack of studying. I contend that people in the 9:00 class that have done well on the other tests will do similarly on this one, despite the fire alarm, because they studied adequately. If you knew the material, loud noise wouldn't stop you from doing well, and I bet that will be reflected by the grades of those who have previously done well. Those that have not done well so far probably heard the fire alarm during the test and decided they didn't need to work as hard because they would have a chance to get extra points later--i.e. they continued the tradition of laziness that has caused their poor performances on the first exams. So, if there aren't an equal number of 9:00 A's on this test than the previous ones, I'll eat my hat, but if there are, then the grades should be left alone.
8 o'clock, gay o'clock! you are not the same class. stay out of it.
The only way that it will be any form of fair is to very simply curve the people who were affected up enough to account for the fire alarm and to make the average the same as the average for all the other recitations. All of this talk about dropping test grade is very simply foolishness. The class at 8:00 am should not have any influence on this issues at all. Simply take the average of all fo the 9 o'clock recitations and average the firealarm people to that average if they are in fact lower.
First of all, we can't just assume that the grades are going to be lower for the fire alarm tests. If the recitation that had the fire alarm go off average is about equal to everyone else's, then I personally don't think anything should be donw to their grades. Secondly, all of the 8 am kids that arecomplaining that if anything is done to the 9 am grades it won't be fair to them, get over it. You can try to take a atest with a fire alarm going off in your ear then. This clearly had no effect on your class as a whole, and if you did poorly, then I guess you should have studied harder. I think that if the test grades are lower, we should just curve them to the rest of the classes averages. I know that isn't completely fair, but I think it is the most reasonable. And for the kids that did well, just leave their grades as is. By the way...to the kid that said all 8 am kids are at a disadvantage because their class is early, you need to get over yourself and stop whining. If you think that you can't do well in a class that early then you shouldn't have scheduled it at 8 in the morning.
YOU ARE ALL REPEATING THINGS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN SAID. DON'T POST ON HERE IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NEW TO SAY.
Well, something should be done, not because of wanting to inflate or increase grades but because the fact that the 9:00 am classes didn't go outside and continued to the test. That is a violation of the law, dropping the lowest score sounds ok to me, or having us retake a test with the same difficulty or that nature, but what the 9:00 am people did by not leaving the building is technically considered illegal.
A makeup test for both sections during dead week sounds good to me. If you are already satisfied with your grade, then don't take the test. If you think you can improve your grade, then by all means take it. As for having a test during dead week, the physics department does this every semester. Plus, you are going to have to study for this stuff anyway, so it's not like it will be cutting into a huge chunk of your study time. This dropping the lowest grade nonsense is unfair to those who were affected by the fire-alarm, especially if they had a low grade earlier in the semester and expected this test to boost their final grade. Do I want another test during dead week? No. Will I take this make-up test if it is offered? Depends on how high my score is. Is this a fair solution? Yes.
i feel it would be fair to curve the test, due to the fire alarm in the 9am section, i also feel a curve should be in order for the 8am section, my friend informed me that his ta gave all of the students there homework back before the test, which took around 15 minutes, and they werent even graded.
Anyone else noticed that the Comments on Linear Algebra Book page has been quiet lately? It seems the complainers have been spending their time posting somewhere else...
You can't just curve the tests, because that would still be unfair to the students who couldn't concentrate because of the alarm. I feel that the only fair way to settle this would be to allow both 8 and 9 classes to take a makeup exam or for the lowest test grade in both classes to be dropped.
Everyone chill out about the fire alarm, every section is looking to improve their grade through some random event. If you screwed up the test, its your own fault, you deserve your F, no matter the fire alarm, the sleep, whatever. ALL GRADES SHOULD BE LEFT THE WAY THEY ARE AND IF YOU FAILED, OH WELL.
I think a curve is the only fair way to solve this problem.
These 8 am deutshes need to stop writing on this page. It doesn't concern you. I am sorry you suck at math and want some help from anywhere you can get it, but shut up.
I believe that if the 9.00 section gets to retake the test, it is only fair that this option is given to the 8.00. Since this will allow more time for studying.
If you weren't adversely affected by the fire alarm you shouldn't be posting! Whatever the decision is, it is not going to have any ill affect on you. Obviously something is going to be done or this page wouldn't have been made. SO IF YOU WANT ALL THE GRADES TO BE LEFT AS THEY ARE you can stop posting.
Curve 9 am grades up to 8 am average and let everyone drop a test grade!
I say drop the lowest test grade for both. It is the solution that is most fair for the majority of people. Any solution that is given isn't going to please everybody, so the only thing to do is to do the best we can. I'm in the 9am section and it's only fair that if you do something to one of the sections grades that you do the same to the other section. Come on guys, we are good at math, just balance out the equation.
I say that we drop the lowest grade. Thats the only solution that seems fair to everyone.
All you 9 am people are just complaining cause you're jealous that the 8am sections get better grades...and probably more women too
For the last comment, i think that you need to have a little sympathy for peiople that took the test in a room with twice as many people in it becuase of a missing TA and a fire alarm that literally went off for the entire time right outside of the room the test was being taken in.
DROP THE LOWEST TEST GRADDDDEEEEE!
I think this is the most childish display in college that I have seen yet. I understand that im only adding to it but everyone needs to respect Morley and whatever he decides to do.
I think the above person should shut up. Last time I checked it is ILLEGAL to not leave a building when a fire alarm is going off, and all TA's and the instructor did nothing about that because we stayed inside trying to concentrate while a purposelly designed to be loud and annoying alarm was going off for half the test. However, everyone seems to be fine with just dropping a low test grade so we should abide by majority rules.
a retake is the logical option, but we should have an option. If we are satisfied with our fire alarm grade, don't force us to retest
I want to say something other than "drop the lowest grade". Everyone seems to be getting a little too excited over that one. Some of y'all should be lawyers the way you're ranting on... How about Dr. Morley do something to the final, like add a few bonus questions so if we did bad on the quiz because of distractions, then we have a chance to regain points. The points can augment our overall quiz grade. This way, 9 am people can improve their grade, and the 8 am class can have a chance too. Since most of us will be reviewing the chapters anyway for the final, it won't be too much of a burden to study for the bonus, and it doesn't need to be scheduled at everyone's convenience.
That wouldn't be fair, becuase some people who might have gotten A's or B's ended up getting D's and F's, due to the simple fact that some people can concentrate better than others when there are noise distractions. Therefore the most fair course of action would be to have the lowest test dropped from the 8am and 9am classes.
i think the fairest thing to do is just to drop the lowest test grade for EVERYONE
So Professor Morley, what is the final decision?
The option should be given to take a make-up test to anyone in the 9 lecture. Although the noise was on the west side of the building, it was still completely audible on the far side and still made it quite difficult to think. If the fire alarm did not go off in the 8 am lecture then they do not deserve the chance to retake the exam. Everyone gets a fair shot in the optimal conditions, however the 9 am lecture did not get this chance and should rightfully be given the chance.
Dropping the lowest test grade gives the 8 am grades an advantage that they do not deserve. they were not affected by the firealarm so that would inflate their grades since the test that the 9 am took while the firealarm was going off is probably their lowest grade because most people find it difficult to think while that constant high pitched sound is ringing in your ears.
I'm in the 9AM class but wasn't on the side of Skiles that the alarm went off in (and I couldn't hear if from where I was), but I thought I'd give my thoughts since the outcome could affect me. Why not ask the students if they want a remake before showing them their grades? And by that I mean give the student in the 9AM class only the option of retaking the test without giving them their scores from the first test. That way, if a person knew they were distracted by the alarm, they'll retake the test obviously. If they weren't distracted and just want to take the retest to get a better grade, they'll think twice about taking it again because its possible they'll do worse the second time. They retest should be the same difficulty, but covering different kinds of problems from the section we covered for this test. I'm not happy with this personally because I don't want my grade to be affected badly, but it seems somewhat fair. I wouldn't mind my lowest test grade to be dropped (and I think if that happens everyone's lowest test grade should be dropped, 8 and 9 AM). I'm worried about my grade just like everyone else here, but not everyone is going to be happy with the outcome.
If there is a retake, I personally don't think the 8AM class should get to retake it, but if they do, it's fine by me. People need to stop thinking about how they can hurt others and just think about this logically.
There should be an optional retake exam, and if there is on, it would be fair if both the 8 and 9 oclock sections have the option to take it. If this isn't feasible, then another fair course of action would be to have the lowest test from each section
HA! I guess Morley's decision is a HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT to those who where SOOOO excited on dropping a grade! Serves you right, all you wanted to do was get anything and everything you could out of the situation.
i'm not disappointed. i was hoping for a drop, but getting a chance to show what i know when i'm not too sick to focus is a good opportunity for me. now that i have medicine, i'm ready.
DROP THE LOWEST TEST GRADE. Thank you.
Why not drop the lowest grade? :-)
drop the lowest test grade, please.
Go Braves!
Braves rule!!!!!
Was it that much of an issue? I wasn't even bothered. I suggest that those affected get maybe like 5-7 points added i.e., improve score of quiz 4 by a grade or two. Since it affected only this quiz, its not relevant to the other quizzes, so dropping the lowest quiz score is a little far-fetched.
I THINK THAT IF YOU DID BAD ON THIS LAST TEST DURING 9AM CLASS, BE ABLE TO DROP THAT TEST, TEST #4, BUT NO OTHER TESTS, BECAUSE THE ALARM DIDN'T GO OFF ON ANY OF THE OTHER TESTS. IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOU DID GOOD, YOU SHOULD HAVE THE OPTION TO KEEP IT.
I THINK THAT IF YOU DID BAD ON THIS LAST TEST DURING 9AM CLASS, BE ABLE TO DROP THAT TEST, TEST #4, BUT NO OTHER TESTS, BECAUSE THE ALARM DIDN'T GO OFF ON ANY OF THE OTHER TESTS. IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOU DID GOOD, YOU SHOULD HAVE THE OPTION TO KEEP IT.
I THINK THAT IF YOU DID BAD ON THIS LAST TEST DURING 9AM CLASS, BE ABLE TO DROP THAT TEST, TEST #4, BUT NO OTHER TESTS, BECAUSE THE ALARM DIDN'T GO OFF ON ANY OF THE OTHER TESTS. IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOU DID GOOD, YOU SHOULD HAVE THE OPTION TO KEEP IT.
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